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Scotiabank TO Waterfront vs Goodlife Fitness TO Marathon?
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Scotiabank TO Waterfront vs Goodlife Fitness TO Marathon?
Scotiabank Toronto Waterfront Marathon
40%
 40%  [ 24 ]
Goodlife Fitness Toronto Marathon
59%
 59%  [ 35 ]
Total Votes : 59

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danziggirl



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 884

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My husband (who has never missed one of my races) says they should run the marathon point-to-point like Boston from west along Lakeshore into, maybe, Exhibition Place, which would be great for parking etc.They could run buses from there also. The train station is right there also. They would not have to close many streets and also it would truly be a Waterfront marathon with not too many street closings.
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SI_Dan



Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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Location: TO, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danz - Tell you Husband, that is an excellent idea....I would love to race that course.....and he is right, parking, transit, street closures.....all that stuff would be easier to manage.....
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jonovision_man



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 979
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lim314159 wrote:
Just heard on 680 News right now that City Hall wants the 2 races to be 6 months apart or combined together. It'll be interesting how it plays out. But considering City Council couldn't even take a group picture a while back, I'm not betting on this. Logical sense is to move the Scotiabank Waterfront to the spring since the Toronto Marathon has been in existance longer. Just goes to show what the media can do...


More details here:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/...

The Waterfront guy's argument is pretty lame...

Quote:
"It would be highly injurious to the sport to have races in Ottawa and Toronto waterfront go up against each other in the same (spring) season," ,


So two marathons in different cities in the spring is "injurious to the sport", but two marathons in the same city in the fall is just peachy?

jono
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CanGirl



Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the 680 news article here....

http://www.680news.com/news/headlines/more.jsp?con...
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tracyRuns



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 87
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now having done both fulls, I dont think ill do the scotiabank one again, the goodlife course is much more enjoyable, the weather is fantastic and once the improve the organization (starting corrals, buses to the start and aid station placement) I think it will be a top notch marathon.

I definitely agree with moving scotia to the start of the year, it is a bit silly they are both in a couple weeks of each other. Atleast they could have it in April where you are more guaranteed to have a cooler day than in september , you could use around the bay as one of your 30k training runs and people wouldnt get as annoyed with shutting the city down 2 weekends in the course of a month.

But seriously, who doesnt watch the news and know there are going to be road closures in the weekend, is it really that much of a impediment to not drive your car for 4 hours on a sunday morning or make alternative arrangements to get to where you need to go or god forbid use the TTC.
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dgrant



Joined: 01 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I don't see how Sunday morning road closures are any less obstructive when they're 6 months apart rather than three weeks apart. Two days of the year are two days of the year. It might be more noticeable to the city's chronic complainers when they are close together, but the net effect is no different. No matter what you do there are going to be a small but vocal group of dissenters... that goes for any city on any topic. You can't run a city according to those people's whims.

Two things Jay Glassman might consider:

Switch the marathon and half marathon start times. Have the marathon start at 8am so runners are off the road one hour sooner and road can reopen.

Institute a 5hr time limit on the marathon. Combined with an 8am start time, that would get downtown roads opened 2.5 hours earlier. It might also help brand the Toronto Marathon as the "runners' race", since they are never going to compete with the Waterfront event as the "festive race". In today's running world, a bold move like that would generate some continent-wide attention... of which that race currently gets none.
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purdy65



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1811
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ohhh,

That would be the only marathon I know of with a 5 hr time limit. It is already pressed at 6 hrs.

I agree with starting earlier though!

Lisa
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muskokawildman



Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 95
Location: Keswick Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to say that the non runners are right.... but the non runners are right. Two marathons three weeks apart is absolutely ridiculous. Closing the city streets twice in a three week period really is a hardship for some...

My idea is simple. One fall marathon for Toronto. Make it big and make it world class. Hold the half marathon on the Saturday and the marathon on the Sunday morning. Before you say that is two closures in two days... Yeah your right... But the public will see it as ONE event.
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Urban_Animal



Joined: 30 Apr 2008
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Location: Downtown Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

muskokawildman wrote:
I hate to say that the non runners are right.... but the non runners are right. Two marathons three weeks apart is absolutely ridiculous. Closing the city streets twice in a three week period really is a hardship for some...

My idea is simple. One fall marathon for Toronto. Make it big and make it world class. Hold the half marathon on the Saturday and the marathon on the Sunday morning. Before you say that is two closures in two days... Yeah your right... But the public will see it as ONE event.


The thing is that we can have the best ideas/solutions to deal with the issue but the fact remains that the two RDs will never, ever agree to get together. They are bitter rivals, they won't budge. Unless they are forced of course, even then I don't know who would bend first.

The City has created a precedent by saying yes to both. I doubt they will ever change it. People will b*tch and complain every year and every year you will have threads, newspaper articles, radio show debates.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Toronto being the host of a marathon that would attract big names and the likes. But unless the people who matter, i.e. the race directors, get into a partnership, it's just not going to happen.
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lim314159



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 2782
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So unfortunate that drivers would get out of their cars and boo the runners. Fortunately none of the runners had things thrown at them. It does bring a damper to the celebration of months of training to be boo'd at. It's going to be tough to move to May since there's also the Mississauga Marathon as well as a new marathon in Whitby (although it's the Whitby one that will suffer). What about a June marathon? But that'll be too hot and humid. I do like the idea of an April marathon as suggested.
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j_hamm1



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lim314159 wrote:
So unfortunate that drivers would get out of their cars and boo the runners. Fortunately none of the runners had things thrown at them.


But I was pretty close to throwing my water bottle at a driver. But I was also afraid that at that point in the race, he could easily get out and catch me.

I say suck it up. Between the subway, a bit of walking and a small amount of planning, I think that a large portion of those who think they were inconvenienced should have been just fine.

I also think that the subway should begin working earlier than 9am on days of events like this (or in general).
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nicruns



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 531

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and of course the toronto star is now weighing in...

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/713408--ma...

a mid-to-late april marathon WOULD be nice!
(something with just enough distance from ATB ideally...)

that way, i'd consider doing BOTH T.O. marathons
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jlang



Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 4
Location: Markham

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Splitting the two events into spring and fall will have no affect on the irate drivers. Can you imagine next year telling one of the angry drivers Sunday morning that everything is OK because "the roads weren't closed 3 weeks ago"? I doubt that it was the same people caught twice.

I agree that it is an inconvenience, but I have less sympathy for the guy who said he makes his living as a driver and yet doesn't know about street closures. Even if you don't pay attention to the radio and newspapers, all closures are listed in great detail on the Toronto City website. Why wouldn't a cab driver or professional trucker check the listings regularly considering there are over 600 events that close the streets every year in TO? Even on Sunday, it was possible to get just about anywhere downtown as long as you took the right streets.

The TO drivers will never be happy with the marathon. Would they blare their horns and swear at the Santa Claus parade? Caribana? The Jazz Festival? Nobody would tolerate it. But they will shout at us, and the media will search out the angry ones and put them on the news. Note that the difference between closing streets for runs vs other events is that the police will let some vehicles through between runners when it is safe to do so. Nobody is let through during any other type of event. Why is there no outrage when Smirnoff vodka closes Yonge St for road hockey to celebrate the start of the Leafs season?

Some media such as 680News seem pleased with themselves about stirring this up, despite shoddy, inaccurate reporting on their part. They repeatedly talked about the 42k of street closures. With part of the route only taking up a single lane, part on the waterfront trail, part on out-and-back on the same street, the closures were much less, and much of the route was open to traffic before noon. The only real problem was that University Ave and the Queen's Park area was closed. I have read many comments about Yonge St. being closed even though hardly any of it was closed, and was re-opened early.

I think the organizers should continue to tweak the routes to reduce the traffic problems and engage the media to publicize the closures in detail in advance, as is done for other high-profile events.
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kzod



Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that most of us agree on two key things that the Goodlife course is more exciting, and that Scotia has the better organization. Unfortunately, too many people assume that eventually Goodlife will improve, while they seem to be going backwards. I heard more complaints about goodlife this year than ever before. The only 'improvement' they put in place are those wacky supersized medals to tempt the glory hounds.

Between Mississauga and Ottawa there's no need for another spring marathon. What we really need is for Glassman to let go of his ego and make a deal to merge the races. Brookes has long been amenable to making a deal, even as his race has outgrown Toronto. And yes, please keep growing the course and taking in more runners. That's exactly what Toronto needs, one bigass race that the city can take pride in. If you get enough runners out there, the spectators will come. First it will just be a larger gathering of friends and family, some of whom will bring along some on course entertainment. This will eventually attract more curiosity seekers, and then others looking to be a 'part' of the event. But, first we need a critical mass of runners to get the ball rolling. C'mon the GTA should be able to attract more runners than Ottawa.

As it stands now our big city marathons can't compete even within the province. It's a shame because it should be a huge tourist draw. What a world of difference it is comparing to Chicago. We arrived Friday and our plane was filled with runners, get on the subway packed with fellow runners. In fact wherever we went from high class restaurants to breakfast diners everyone we met and talked to was running the race or cheering someone on. The whole city is supporting you before, during and after the race. Although my wife did see one older woman who stepped out of her apartment on Lasalle street to discover thousands of people lining the route exclaiming "what the frak is going on here?" Embarassed But it's amazing that even with such cold weather the course was lined in it's entirety with throngs of people and entertainment. What a huge boost for everyone involved. My only complaint is that I missed so much of the entertainment due to focusing on running the silly race! Laughing

I can only dream that eventually Toronto could aspire to a fraction of that goodwill.
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CanGirl



Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kzod wrote:
As it stands now our big city marathons can't compete even within the province. It's a shame because it should be a huge tourist draw. What a world of difference it is comparing to Chicago. We arrived Friday and our plane was filled with runners, get on the subway packed with fellow runners. In fact wherever we went from high class restaurants to breakfast diners everyone we met and talked to was running the race or cheering someone on. The whole city is supporting you before, during and after the race. Although my wife did see one older woman who stepped out of her apartment on Lasalle street to discover thousands of people lining the route exclaiming "what the frak is going on here?" Embarassed But it's amazing that even with such cold weather the course was lined in it's entirety with throngs of people and entertainment. What a huge boost for everyone involved. My only complaint is that I missed so much of the entertainment due to focusing on running the silly race! Laughing

I can only dream that eventually Toronto could aspire to a fraction of that goodwill.


It really is too bad Toronto does not share the same sentiment as other big cities such as Chicago, Boston, NY, etc. Instead, I generally find Toronto complains way too much. I've lived here since the early 90's, and if it's not one thing, it's another. Shocked Could you imagine though if there was just one marathon and it did reach the numbers that some of the US cities get? Isn't NY around 40,000? Yikes, people in Toronto would be livid! Now, I haven't been to any big U.S. cities for marathon weekends, but when I was in Ottawa last spring for the marathon, I was so impressed with the weekend's festivities. There were so many people on the streets cheering on both race days. It was fantastic.
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